I just finished 120th in this, out of 1600 or so. It was a fun and interesting tournament, and I want to share a few hands here while they’re still on my mind:
Facing a Donk Bet
I opened 2.5x from the CO with As Tc, a good player in the small blind called, and the big blind folded. Flop came 7s 9h Js. Villan donked about half pot, I raised 3.5x, he folded.
Making a Donk Bet
Blinds 100/200 button opened to 450 SB called and I called Ks Ts in the BB. Flop Qs 9d 8d SB checked I bet 900 button folded SB called. Turn 5, SB checks, I bet 1800 with 4500 behind, he folded. Plan was to jam most rivers if he called.
Donking a Set
I opened 44 UTG, Button made a small 3bet, I called. Flop K94r I bet 4500 into 6700 he called. Turn was an T, I checked, he jammed his last 15K, I called and beat his KQ. In this case I doubt it much mattered what I did, but I think this is an interesting spot to donk bet. The thing is that when he doesn’t have K it’s pretty hard for me to get stacks in if I check. I can’t rep a big draw by check-raising, he’ll check behind a lot of turns if I check-call, etc. I think a donk is quite likely to get called or raised by hands like AQ, AJ, QJ, JT, QQ, JJ, TT. Then even if the turn goes check-check I can still jam the river for pot.
River Bluff
Blinds 500/1000/100. Button opens to 2200, I make it 6000 with KQo, he calls. Flop 952r, I bet 6500 which is about half-pot, he min-raises, I call. Turn is a 4 and checks through. River is an 8, I put him all in for 37K (there’s about 52K in the pot), and he calls with TT and not much hesitation. I was actually surprised he was that strong, and I may well be able to get him off of smaller pairs and/or Ace-high (if he takes this line) often enough for this to be profitable even without him folding TT.
Pre-flop is actually the part I’m most ambivalent about. We’re a bit deep (nearly 60bb) for three-betting KQo. Quite possible it’s better to just call. I like the flop bet, and I like calling flop getting 7:1 (easily the right odds when he has underpairs, especially if he lets me see a free river), and I think KQ is close enough to the bottom of my range to jam as a bluff. Value range is going to be JJ+, sets, and perhaps two-pair if I have them in my preflop range.
I Haz Blocker!
Blinds 800/1600/200. Good player UTG (has been talking to Bryn Kenney about playing EPTs etc) opens to 3200. Weak player on CO calls off of a 35K stack. From some players that would be strength, but from him it’s weakness. I was already thinking this was a good spot to squeeze and then I found dem rockets on the button. I made it 11K, UTG eyed my stack and then called without much deliberation. CO folded.
Flop Kc Qc Th. Not exactly ideal for AA, but I had the Ac. He checked, and I checked back.
Turn 4c. He bet half pot, and I called.
River was an offsuit 7. He bet 32K into 57K.
When I put the details down in black and white like this, it looks like a pretty straight-forward call. The thing is that Villain was shaking as he put the money into the pot and seemed pretty amped up generally, not worried but excited. It was a pretty strong physical tell, and of course in retrospect I wish I’d listened to it. It was just so hard to put him on a flush given that I was looking at the A, the K, and Q, and he’d raise-called from UTG. But, he had the 9c 8c.
Busto
Blinds 1000/2000/300. Same Villain opened to 4000 from the button. SB (same weak player who called in the previous hand) called, and I called 8h 7d from a 40K stack. Flop T64 with two hearts. Checks to Villain, he bets 5800, SB folds, and I jam for a little over pot.
To be honest this might be a little tilty. I mean, it can’t be too bad, but I don’t think how often Villain is bet-folding this texture, he probably checks back a lot of broadway-type hands and any draws that aren’t strong enough to bet-call. Calling could actually be better for me. Board ran out dry and I lost to a set of 4s.
Leo Wolpert, who also cashed this tournament, convinced me to play the Millionaire Maker tomorrow, so that’s where I’ll be at 10AM.
In “Donking a Set” you mentioned you chose to donk bet because you thought it was the best way to get stacks in. I generally try to squeeze the most I think is likely possible out of opponents. Should I always be trying to get stacks in with monsters? Was there something about this hand or event in particular that made you want to get stacks in?
Nice run in the event man!
It’s a little complicated, but if I had to bottom line, yes, I’m usually looking to play a big pot with a monster, and when stacks are shallow, as they usually are in tournaments, that often means getting stacks in. I have a series on Tournament Poker Edge called Getting Paid that talks about this in a lot more detail.
With your AA on the KQT47 flushed board facing a river oop 2nd barrel in a 3bet pot, wouldn’t folding be the best play? Because I don’t think he has enough bluffs in his range, and you lose to all of his value bets. What do you think?
I assume that when Andrew mentions “Good player UTG (has been talking to Bryn Kenney about playing EPTs etc)” we are supposed imply that this is a good player and we will therefore not be overfolding for exploitative reasons. Therefore we will need to have some bluff catchers in our range.
As Andrew says, the fact that we hold the Ac, the Kc and Qc are on the board reduces the number of flush combinations in villains range. This makes our hand an ideal candidate for bluff catching which, as discussed, we will need to do sometimes.
facing a donk bet: given flop, good line since villain likely has mid-pp, 9x, 7x. obviously giving up if called though, no?
making a donk bet: understand reasoning to donk given hero sees one over, gutshot, and backdoor fd. but flop texture Q98dd isn’t ideal, as villain’s calling range is AQ, KQ, QJ, Q9, JT, 98, 99, 88, 76, A9, A8, AJ, and all diamond flush draws). worse yet, a large portion of that range will call a second barrel. on the upside, you fold out Ahi and lower pocket pairs. i also like the plan to jam all rivers though which will fold out a ton of the double barrel range (especially a non-d river).
donking a set: seems standard. very weird to not lead all sets, if you’re also donking air and backdoor draws in the aforementioned way.
river bluff: hate this. i’m flatting KQ pre most often since 54bb deep. very rarely ever floating the flop raise on 952r. if hero is gonna get fancy, b/3b shove flop is superior. even still, folding flop is way, way better.
i haz blocker: great flop check with AA on KQThh. annoying turn. river lead is pretty fishy, but cry call river nearly always, if villain is competent (i.e. thin value bets, capable of bluffing).
busto: kinda hate this. i’m pitching 87o from the bb with a 20bb stack.
Thanks for the comments, pep, appreciate you taking the time to go through each of them.
“facing a donk bet: given flop, good line since villain likely has mid-pp, 9x, 7x. obviously giving up if called though, no?”
Mostly, anyway.
“making a donk bet: understand reasoning to donk given hero sees one over, gutshot, and backdoor fd. but flop texture Q98dd isn’t ideal, as villain’s calling range is AQ, KQ, QJ, Q9, JT, 98, 99, 88, 76, A9, A8, AJ, and all diamond flush draws). worse yet, a large portion of that range will call a second barrel. on the upside, you fold out Ahi and lower pocket pairs. i also like the plan to jam all rivers though which will fold out a ton of the double barrel range (especially a non-d river).”
My equity isn’t terrible against that range, and the very worst of it (A8) may fold. Even the outcome that I got – IP folds, OOP calls – is pretty good as it sets up barreling very nicely.
“donking a set: seems standard. very weird to not lead all sets, if you’re also donking air and backdoor draws in the aforementioned way.”
No way I lead KK here if I see the flop this way. Also, I bet you less than 5% of the people who read this post would have led here.
“river bluff: hate this. i’m flatting KQ pre most often since 54bb deep. very rarely ever floating the flop raise on 952r. if hero is gonna get fancy, b/3b shove flop is superior. even still, folding flop is way, way better.”
Agree with flatting pre. Flop call isn’t really a float, even without bluffing the river it’s just a straight up pot odds call against a likely pocket pair.
“i haz blocker: great flop check with AA on KQThh. annoying turn. river lead is pretty fishy, but cry call river nearly always, if villain is competent (i.e. thin value bets, capable of bluffing).”
I promise you he is never value betting worse.
“busto: kinda hate this. i’m pitching 87o from the bb with a 20bb stack.”
If I didn’t know who you were, it would be hard for me to take any of your other comments seriously after reading this.
I wouldn’t worry about your play with 87. Even if your play depends on his making spewy c-bets with some of his range… that’s something I’ll bet on any day, especially since some of these folks will bet bigger with a good draw.
I like the donk bet on Q98 with KT no flush cards, though in this case I’d be looking right more eagerly than I’d be looking left (is SB going for a k/r?).
Love leading out with 444. I don’t do this sort of thing nearly enough. Another place this sort of play comes up is in multiway 3-bet pots where the relative position is such that check-calling will reveal a lot of strength.
I really like following my heart in live games, but I don’t mind the call with AA on the flush board at all. I think the fact that it was multiway preflop makes it a little harder for him to have flopped a set, which is already not easy to do when he didn’t 4b before the flop. Another pretty obvious key to the hand (for me) is (i) that he can have a lot of semibluffing hands on the turn and (ii) that it’s reasonable for him to think that he’d have to bet twice to get you to fold the hands he’s targeting.
Good run! I hope today is fun for you.
Making a donk bet:
Can you expand on your reason for donk-betting as opposed to check-calling?
To me this seems like a great check-call.
You’ll be last to act if Villain c-bets (so you can get away when SB has you beat).
I think it is fine if it checks through.
What’s the purpose of the donk? To win on the flop? I can’t imagine it is for value. Because Villains are going to fold too often when you barrel (as opposed to bluffing or paying off too often if you check-call)?
You’re correct that I was not betting for value with King high ;-). I think I have a lot of equity against people’s calling ranges but not so much against raising ranges, which right away makes it an appealing bet. Add to that that the hand may not be quite strong enough to check-call, and that I can generate fold equity against hands that might check back and then feel more comfortable calling down on certain run outs, and that it’s good for barreling when I’m not raised… I just think it’s a good donking hand.
Tks for the writeup! You guys have been covering a lot of topics I’ve been thinking about of late (comprehensive donking strat, the balance between late mtt ICM factors and allowing yourself to get run over because of them, etc). All good stuff.