I’m often asked about donk betting or when to take the initiative away from an opponent who’s been betting or raising. My usual answer is that you should bet when you have reason to think your opponent is unlikely to bet the next street and you don’t want to give him the opportunity to pot control or take a free card. It’s common to check to the aggressor because that player is at least representing a stronger hand than yours. So when the flop, turn, or river changes the board texture in a way that you think is unfavorable for his range, and you wish either to bet your own hand for value/protection or to represent something, that’s when you want to donk.
This was from the $215 10-minute levels NLHE 6-max WCOOP event. Villain is Philipp “philbort” Gruissem. As many of you know I’m pretty stubborn about folding my BB to small pre-flop raises and also folding to smallish barrels once I get any piece of the board. When I see the flop with such a wide range, even a gutshot is in the top 2/3 of range, and then I turn a pair…. I still think it’s possible Villain has air, but I don’t know how likely it is that he’ll fire the river with that, so I chose instead to make what I’m sure was a very confusing shove for him. He tanked all the way down literally to the last second before calling with a hand that I doubt he was going to bet on the river. Although maybe he was, to be honest it is still very likely to be good, and a player as good as Philbort should be able to recognize and act on that.
PokerStars – $200+$15|500/1000 Ante 125 NL (6 max) – Holdem – 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
UTG: 59.04 BB
MP: 35.77 BB
CO: 27.02 BB
BTN: 29.05 BB
SB: 46.6 BB
Hero (BB): 83.28 BB
6 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 2.25 BB) Hero has Ts 9c
fold, MP raises to 2.25 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 1.25 BB
Flop : (5.75 BB, 2 players) Ks 5c Jc
Hero checks, MP bets 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB
Turn : (11.75 BB, 2 players) 9d
Hero checks, MP bets 6 BB, Hero calls 6 BB
River : (23.75 BB, 2 players) 9h
Hero bets 71.91 BB and is all-in, MP calls 24.4 BB and is all-in
Hero shows Ts 9c (Three of a Kind, Nines) (Pre 34%, Flop 18%, Turn 11%)
MP shows Kh Qh (Two Pair, Kings and Nines) (Pre 66%, Flop 82%, Turn 89%)
Hero wins 72.54 BB
I have been thinking about this hand for a bit and Im not completely sure i like the turn check-call… “I still think it’s possible Villain has air” could you “elaborate” a little bit more this point of the hand, cause im not super sure he c bets and then double barrels that much air on this texture…
I was thinking about a way to implement the db in this and i came up with this line, What do you think about: check calling flop, DONKING turn (as a bluff this time but we can balance it out with all the combos of QT KJ J9 K9) and shoving river ?
great value shove on river, but the fact that gruissem tank called with just TPHK is arguably strong evidence that your flop/turn play was ill-advised and doesn’t make much sense.
alternative lead lines:
1. donk flop to fold out Ax and lower pp’s while also shutting out worse T9o hands from cbet bluffing. if called, c/f turn, river.
2. c/c flop; donk turn (including turned 9’s); overshove river to fold out everything except KJ, QT, stubborn AK, and strangely played 55.
3. c/r flop; fire turn; shove river. this is the best line with an arguably very high rate of success given card removal effects of T9, the board run out, and stack sizes (a shove on river is close to a PSB). those times gruissem wakes up with KJ, QT, or 55, you still have close to a healty 50bb stack remaining.
ideally though, the best line with T9o on Ks 5c Jc is folding because when gruissem has AQ/KQ/QJ/QQ/Q9 or AT, he neuters your GSD. worse yet, that same range (minus AT) destroys any backdoor 2P luckbox draws you might have with T9o.
Very nice post. Hard to argue with any of that, especially the last point. Thanks, this was something I needed to read. My play from the BB has been… in an experimental phase.
The other obvious thing to say is that sometimes Villain is supposed to have a profitable c-bet. The fact that you’re in the top 2/3 of your range and folding would leave an autoprofitable spot doesn’t itself entail that you’re doing anything right from a theory perspective by continuing.
Yes. I like the way Ed Miller explains this in Poker’s 1%, that Villain has essentially “paid for” the opportunity to c-bet profitably by raising in early position.
I really like that point Ed makes and think it’s especially applicable here. That said, I love seeing your hand histories from the big blind, and it has caused me to think heavily about my own blind play and how other tournament regs proceed from the blinds. I’ve noticed there are still many players who refuse to continue to the flop with 15-22 big blinds, something I have only recently started thinking more about as a result of your blind strategy.