Podcast Episode 12 Featuring Adrienne “Talonchick” Rowsome

23 thoughts on “Podcast Episode 12 Featuring Adrienne “Talonchick” Rowsome”

1. lol at you two ever calling this the nitcast. What a bunch of tipping hee-haw, tipping left, right, and centre! And for so much. And with such consternation about the plight of your fellow man. Tipping fish is more like it, in that you feel obliged to do it.

   I would have given the dealer a crisp hundred dollar bill and if they don’t like it they can look for a new job for which they can voluntarily commit their time and labour and be paid to deal cards and manage pots in a contractual exchange by their employer. Nate used the word lottery tickets precisely it seems to me, in describing the hopes a dealer has of dealing a jackpot. The lottery is a stupidity tax. And expectation is the cousin of misery.

   Given my nonexistent obligations I would have left 100$ because my mood having won 32k would have suited such an extravagance.

   • My initial position was not so far removed from this. Part of what prompted the question was to what extent I need to factor in being vilified by the entire room, staff and regular players. Realistically they aren’t going to quit if they don’t like it. What they are going to do is make coming to the room a miserable experience for me. Even if you were right that they don’t have a right to expect much, they do and that’s the general consensus. I don’t think it’s as simple as just opting out and saying if they don’t like it they can go fuck themselves.

     • With regard to Andrew’s “in the moment” comment, it took about 90 minutes for everyone to get paid and there was a bit of tipping discussion before. I like the 3% to be taken out of tournaments because you don’t get taxed on that 3% when you win.

   • I’m of the opinion that it’s none of your business how much I tip and likewise it’s not my business how much you give. The situation in this room sucks because the dealers constantly talk shit about people who are poor tippers. Maybe it should be called something other than gratuity because there is absolutely an expectation of a large gift.
     gratuity:
     1. a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.
     2. something given without claim or demand.

     I was at the table for the $32k jackpot in question. It was a very awkward situation when the people got paid and subsequently gave tips. The dealer actually counted each tip before putting it in his toke box. If he had just accepted the money and dropped it in his box instead of counting each one right then he would have counted at the end of his shift and seen that he made well over $1k on that down and probably left very happy.

     I have a problem with the idea that dealers hit the lotto in the case of a jackpot that is funded by taking money out of pots. I’d much prefer to receive the entire pot when I win it instead of them effectively forcing me to buy a lotto ticket every time I win a pot and then expecting me to tip again if I ever realize my “lotto equity”.

     • I heartily agree that I would prefer not to have a jackpot system in place. I don’t like the appearance that I have a share of the jackpot equal to my contribution when (i) I am expected to tip some of it back, (ii) the house often finds a way to get some of it back, and (iii) I play tighter than average preflop anyway. But the question isn’t whether this is a good system; rather, it’s what I ought to do given that this is the way the system is. In a lot of ways the tip-every-pot tipping system is also broken, but that doesn’t mean that my obligations in that case are just a matter of what I’m inclined to do.

2. Well it is for me :). The thing is that I imagine that I have a higher comfort level with being ostracized. Like the difference between 100 and 1000 is a lot of equity you need to recoup. And certainly with no online poker, maybe there is some calculus that makes it better, I just can’t see it. Like by the time the 900$ difference in your hourly is up (or 1900 in Nate’s case) the dealer would have moved on anyways, assuming you weren’t a prick in the interim, which you would not have been.

   Like I am not going to tell anyone to go fuck themselves. I am going to happily give the dealer the 100$ bill, smile, thank him/her, and wish him a good night, and be warm to him/her next time I see them. If anyone accuses me in a later session, seriously, of frugality that borders on immorality I’m going to curtly and dryly belittle them as they deserve, and that, in my experience, will be the conclusion of things.

   • FWIW I would not tip $2K in order to avoid being ostracized. I would do it because I think that’s what I’ve tacitly agreed to do. But I’m not 100% comfortable with that assessment, and I have some sympathy with those who think that good arguments can be made for $100, $5, or whatever.

     It’s a tricky subject. I do think that the tipping system is broken (in many places), but alas.

     • Alas think of all the Plato paraphernalia you could buy with 2k! I know what Hobbes would do.

3. Hi guys – nice strat discussion.

   I think the hero was value-owned by the villain on the river. If the villain bets the river, hero may fold two pair hands but if he checks there is a chance hero will bet/bluff two pair hands or WORSE.

   I think checking to induce an “oops-value bet” is a powerful river tool, especially when so many players are taught that they should value bet with a wide range.

4. About Tipping after a BBJ

   I was lucky enough to be a loosing hand(JJJJ over 9999) in a BBJ here in Vegas that paid out 100k total. 20k to winner and 30k to looser(me). I tipped the dealer a purple($500) and my portion of the collective jackpot which might have been near $400… so somewhere around 900’ish to the dealer. I also gave the floor a black and I gave the guy who walked me to the window a black.

5. how can one submit hands for the following weeks podcast?

   • podcast@thinkingpoker.net for hands and other questions!

6. thank you very much

7. Don’t give up on having fun!!

   I like to play red/black with my neighbours sometimes and bet $1 on flops, fun side bets help liven it up when you aren’t in the pot (although I have had people get irritated with this too), or have an arsenal of bad jokes.

   Not sure that too much could have been done this weekend, there seemed to be a moratorium on having fun, understandable certainly…but laughter and music help heal!

   Thanks for having me on!

8. The number one reason for low interest in omaha8 is reciprocality(Tommy Angelo)
   Reciprocality says that when you and your opponents would do the same thing in a given situation, no money moves, and when you do something different, it does.
   After fishes are fast exterminated the regs are left and they “have to” play “the same thing in a given situation.
   The outcome is no money moves.The very frequent showdown and splits make rake significant factor shaving profit.
   Reciprocality: The Cause of Profit at Poker.What are top profit rates for best omaha8 players??
   In PLO is different story right now -you can mine for reciprocal gold.

   • Reciprocality just says playing better wins more in theory. You seem to imply that plo8 is nearly solved and that’s far from the case (I think we’re closer to solving NL hold em but there’s still plenty of profit to be made there). Making mistakes in poker costs money, it doesn’t suddenly change when you make it a split pot game. Regs will continue to make mistakes and continue to overestimate their edges. It’s not like every “reg” plays exactly the same as every other, that’s just silly.

     Regarding high rake, just make it a time game like plo is most places.

     • Not that it matters, but Sklansky articulated the concept that Angelo calls reciprocality in The Theory of Poker (1983).

     • This is only my personal view formed by my limited experience.
       I knew from past that pot limit omaha8 was excellent bankroll builder.
       I tried pot limit omaha8 lately and my win -rate was 1 bb/100.
       I tried different low limits including microstakes to table select to get more $$$.
       I did not see much difference in strategy across stakes I played and I can not imagine how I can improve my win rate.Games are fu.. nitty and straightforward.

       The story for PLO is different.
       My last 200k hands at PLO had a win-rate 8bb/100(microstakes,PLO100,PLO200)-
       where zoom format was heavily detrimental to my win rate lately.
       I see fundamental difference across limits in PLO.
       I see fundamental differences in styles across player pool.
       I believe I see a lot of leaks including regs at PLO200.

       Thanks for your response.Your response gave me some glimpse of hope.
       I am very curious: Is winrate 10bb/100 possible for pot limit omaha8 on PokerStars NOW?
       Thanks.

       • My guess would be that 10BB/100 is not possible except at the very lowest limits.

         FWIW, if you do not see strategic differences across limits, you might be well advised to spend some time studying the game. I certainly noticed some differences across stakes when I played those games regularly. Perhaps things have changed now–I am, after all, American, and have not seen the games recently–but it would be a rare thing for play not to differ across stakes. (This is true even when, as was the case in PLO8, several players play the highest stakes available but also play all the way down to the $.50/$1 level.)

         Good luck!

         • Thanks. “several players play the highest stakes available but also play all the way down to the $.50/$1 level”- it still holds true;

         • Just for you information I see several players who play the lowest stakes(1-2cent) available on PS but also play up to the $0.25/0.50 level simultaneously.

   • Ok I reiterate my claim -so maybe number one factor for low interest is omaha8 are low win-rates and low variance.
     The game to be more popular require higher variance.High variance protects Ego-fish.

9. This was my favorite podcast to date – I enjoyed the interview with Talon chick. Adrienne is so upbeat, competitive and fun at the same time. She is a breath of fresh air in the poker world. It seems she can hold her own with the best of you guys.

Comments are closed.