Here’s a change of pace. Instead of telling you my reasoning and take on the hand (yet), I want to hear yours. What do you think of my play? What do you think of Villain’s? Obviously some streets will be more controversial than others, but I’m interested in anything and everything that you think either of us did particularly well or poorly.
One important dynamic I should add: I had been 3-betting Villain a lot this session, mostly but not always when I had position. He has a very high 4-bet% (18, to be precise).
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold’em, $10.00 BB (4 handed) – Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($2089.25)
Hero (SB) ($2403.35)
BB ($528.25)
UTG ($2733.25)
Preflop: Hero is SB with J
, 9
1 fold, Button bets $30, Hero raises to $111, 1 fold, Button calls $81
Flop: ($232) 4
, 9, 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $166, Button calls $166
Turn: ($564) 7
(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $315, Hero raises to $876, Button calls $561
River: ($2316) Q
(2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks
Total pot: $2316 | Rake: $2
Results:
Button had 10, Q (one pair, Queens).
Hero had J, 9 (one pair, nines).
Outcome: Button won $2314
Pre-flop:
-Vs someone with such a high 4-B% is J9s a hand we want to be 3-betting? I’m assuming you do not plan on 5B Bluff shoving with J9s.
Obviously J9s is ahead of his BTN opening range, but this is also somewhere I struggle with 3-Betting players OOP who have a high 4B%
Flop:
-Given his high 4B% pretty sure we flopped the nuts. If he’s 4B so wide, I’d assume he’s also 4-betting all his value hands near 100%
Our equity vs his raise/calling range probably isn’t amazing b/c its going to have a bunch of draws, but I think bet/calling would be the best play here.
Turn:
-His flatting range is likely something like pairs 9x and below, floats, and weak draws. Assuming he’s going to bet his entire air range when checked to, and will probably bet his draws assuming we’d 2-barrel our value hands – C/R here is pretty hot.
It’s a bad card to 2 barrel since it hits his range pretty hard, so your range to barrel probably increases his perception of your range. C/R balances it well. Curious as to why you went so small though.
River:
-His range seems like missed draws or marginal hands. Would shoving river be too thin? I just don’t see him showing up with a better hand unless he binked a Q ever. Its a good bluff card had you been bluffing since its an overcard ot the board, and it probably removes most weaker value-betting hands from your range, in his eyes.
As played I’d check cuz ima wimp, planning to c/f just because the bet bet / check line when draws miss is so often a check to induce – he’d be kinda silly to bet whiffs.
Simple case for folding pre can be made obv. You think he’s restealing I assume and the resteal is fine with a hand like j9s. If your hand is best on the flop isnt it best on the turn? I might have simply c the flop however. Betting bloats the pot out of position. Once you bet the flop, I think you have to follow on the turn with the intention of calling a raise.
My personal opinion is to…
1. fold pre
2. c flop, bet turn, evaluate river (prob c/call)
The 3b is good with deep stacks. There’s nothing wrong with trying to build a big pot when deep against a villain you have an edge on. And when he opts to call instead of 4b, it helps to narrow his range….I think a player like this will have an ultra-polarized 4b range in position of AA/KK/QQ and garbage. So when he calls instead of 4betting, we should narrow it down to pairs 55-JJ, SC’s, and AJ+/KQ. (i dont think he’ll 4b AK/AQ because you’ll be folding too often, and they’ll play well in position)
The flop is good for us vs his range, so I like the cbet. Sets of 2’s and 4’s are highly unlikely, and not in his range imo, and the flop doesn’t hit our perceived range, so I can see him floating with his 55-JJ range, as well as his ace or king high hands.
Turn is a good check because we have showdown value, your hand is well disguised, and it will be hard to get value from worse hands. I’m not sure of his tendencies, but a lot of players will bluff the turn with a board this dry, so I prefer a check/call, just because I don’t want to build an unnessarily large pot. Your raise is great, and is good against his range, but I don’t have the balls to pull the trigger on something like this. It was a perfect size to get you value from his entire range that you’re beating, and it also got you a free showdown. I really think he would’ve value bet the river if you had opted to check/call the turn, but now that he rivered some value, he doesn’t want to risk being blown off it by another c/r.
Nice hand.
I have to admit, in cash game play, I am not a fan of the pre-flop 3bet oop with J-9s. If he is a high percentage 4-bettor, you could have to fold to a big bet oop. However, I play full ring, not 6-max and his call has narrowed his range. I would put him on 22-88, Scs, any 2 paint, any ace, etc.
I like your bet on the flop but I don’t like his call. If I were him I would think I had approximately 15 outs twice and raise. If another club hits, it will kill the action.
I like your ck raise on the turn and I presume you put him on the flush draw. I also think your ck raise here prevented him from value betting the river.
I like your check since not many hands you beat are going to call given the action so far. I suppose I like his check behind even though he finally took the lead in the hand. I probably would have done the same against a highly aggressive opponent like you since he now has considerable showdown value. Although, against a less aggressive opponent, the way you played this hand, I might have put you on 6-6 thru J-J and wanted to value bet the river.
Preflop, I’d probably fold. I think you ended up building too big a pot for the hand you began with.
However, given the preflop action, I think you played the hand very well post flop. You applied pressure when you were ahead and made him pay to draw.
Then, you got unlucky on the river but I think it all goes back to J-9s is a marginal hand to play this strongly from oop.
PREFLOP:
Hero: non-standard hand to 3-bet OOP against an aggressive opponent, but I think it is okay since it is 4-handed and it is a creative play to mix up your game with something that can potentially flop deceptively well.
Villian: I think calling to see a flop with a playable hand in position when both are over 200xBB deep is fine.
FLOP:
Hero: make what appears to be a routine 70%p cbet which you can do with or without a hand.
Villian: standard call with fdraw + probably one live overcard + bdoor str draw. I think this line is fine. One could argue that he sbluff raise this flop but I feel flatting here is better for several reasons: 1) this is a 3-bet pot with relative stacks such that villian can still get his stack in relative to the escalating pot size with two more betting rounds to go if he chooses to do so, 2) flatting here could represent a wider range such as a draw, overpair, set, or Ace-high and balances his play out, 3) he has position and can take the hand away from you on the turn with aggression.
TURN:
Hero: some may think your decision to CR OOP might be bad. With regards to ABC solid textbook poker, yes, bloating the pot OOP by CR with just TP 9 and weak kicker might be regarded as “fundamentally bad poker”.
I like this play because it can mean so many things and represent such a wide range: 1) sign of huge strength since you sold your play prior to that as a cbet on a whiffed flop and you are now giving up by checking turn and have now sprung a trap with a monster, 2) your play can also be interpreted as a sbluff with the nut Ace-hi fdraw and if villian was also drawing then it might induce a fold or at least prevent him from 3-bet shoving drawing very slim, 3) you induce a float bluff on the perception of weakness.
The only thing I dislike about your play was your raise bet sizing of 2.8x. I assume it was designed for value and charging maximum for draws since I seriously doubt you are ever folding in this spot to a 3-bet shove or if villian calls you are (on river) either open shoving yourself or check-calling any shove of $936 for a pot of $3252 getting 3.5:1. But any decent draw with 12 perceived outs would mathematically be inclined to stay in for that amount. Your strong turn CR move would weight your hand range more towards overpairs, sets, or better fdraws so this might confuse villian in thinking he actually has fewer outs from 6 to 9 at best. So with this in mind you are better off raising to say 3.2x or $1015 to get FE or incorrect odds to draw, since the reality is that you do NOT hold a monster but only a vulnerable pair of 9’s.
Villian: I think villian’s play to sbluff bet when you check turn was good since he gets rid of most Ace-hi King-hi small PP cbet type hands. You can also argue that calling the CR for bets that total 55% of one’s stack is ugly. But if you consider that he has close to zero FE (unless you had A/K-hi) if he 3-bet shoves turn for only $932 more against your likely range of monsters and big draws, then calling to try and hit the river might actually be correct even if it means folding on a brick river.
RIVER:
Hero: check is good here since no use turning your hand with showdown value into a bluff that only gets called by a better hand. You also induce bluffs from busted draws.
Villian: I think check is okay here since you represented such huge strength on the prior street. If you were sbluffing with a better draw that missed the river then you are not paying off his value bet which can only be a shove due to the hugely inflated pot.
But you could argue villian missed out on value since a perceptive player may notice you also check here with hands such as A9 88 TT JJ in order to induce a river bluff by a busted fdraw, so a shove by villian for thin value might also get paid off by a worse hand. But I think your non-standard play on the turn really confused and froze villian and I cannot blame him for being conservative here.